Interested in connecting with Sam Colley and Felix Ontañón? Reach out to them on LinkedIn!

About Pod Group: Pod Group, A Giesecke+Devrient Company, is an Enterprise Network Operator (ENO) dedicated to providing IoT connectivity solutions to put the ownership of the IoT network into the hands of the enterprise by offering managed services on both public and private spectrum.

This episode of the IoT For All Podcast is brought to you by Losant.
Check them out at Losant.com

Key Questions and Topics from this Episode:

(01:33) Introduction to Sam and Felix

(03:48) Introduction of Pod Group

(06:40) What is the enterprise network operator strategy?

(12:30) Use cases Pod Group clients are deploying

(16:25) Barriers for IoT adoption

(26:50) What barriers need to be removed to progress IoT?

(31:15) How does ENOS address the barriers of IoT?

(34:45) Impact of Pod Group being acquired?

Transcript:

- [Voice Over] You are listening to the IoT For All Media Network.

- [Ryan] Hello everyone. And welcome to another episode of the IoT For All Podcast. I'm your host, Ryan Chacon. And today's, we have actually two guests from Pod Group, the CEO, Sam Colley and Felix Ontañón the Director of Research and Innovation, both of which have a ton of experience in the IoT space. For those of you maybe unfamiliar with Pod Group, they are an enterprise network operator ENO, dedicated to providing connectivity solutions to put ownership of the IoT network into the hands, of the enterprises by offering managed services on both public and private spectrums. So today we're gonna talk a little bit about, enterprise network operator and what that means and strategy behind it, why it's important as well as talking a bit high level around the barriers to adoption, the barriers to deployment, that we've seen in IoT and how we can also overcome them. And then we finally wrap up about the new acquisition that they just recently went through, and the importance of that and what that kind of means for Pod Group's future. Before we get into that, customers choose Losant because it's unique, low-code approach to application development, offers a level of agility and speed to market that is hard to find anywhere else. Losant provides a foundation and lets you focus on delivering the IoT applications, your customers require. Start now, and see how the internet of things can transform your business. Visit Losant.com. Losant.com And without further ado, please enjoy this episode of the IoT For All Podcast. Welcome Sam and Felix, to the IoT For All Podcast. Thanks for being here this week.

- [Sam] Thanks for having us.

- [Ryan] Yeah, I'd love it if we could start off. Yeah, absolutely. Let's start off by having you both kind of go around and give a quick introduction about yourself and your background experience, things we think would be really interesting and relevant for our audience to get a better sense of who they're speaking to. And Sam let's start with you.

- [Sam] Sure, yeah. So yes, obviously Sam Colley up in IoT for 10 years now I think, so started with pods, in our European office actually. And then kind of moved to the US by eight years ago and now on the west coast. And really kind of been in this connectivity journey, pretty much since I guess IoT started to become more mainstream. I mean, still M to M I think back then. So it was a while back and you know, certainly there were no billboards with IoT on, like there are now, so that was like, even less context when people ask what I did, but now I can kind of point to those as you're driving along the highway. But yeah, so I think, you know, just been kind of really seeing the evolution, obviously been through the kind of, the period of hype around IoT, which obviously hasn't necessarily been achieved yet, but still I think it will be one day once things start coming together. And yeah, it's been a really interesting journey and I've kind of seen, you know, all the different parts of the ecosystem evolve and seeing kind of like the new technologies come along and you know, it's been really interesting to see that and be part of that. So yeah, that's kind of my background.

- [Ryan] Fantastic, Felix?

- [Felix] So I'm Felix Ontañón, the director of research and innovation for Pod Group. I being in IoT for eight years, more or less now, started working for both and implementing the first special of the connectivity management platform. Okay, that we have. We are having now again offering the third version of the platform, far way ahead okay. Of what I started to implement like a eight years ago okay. So I'll say director of research and implement and innovation what have been trying to do it's combining and getting into both the most advanced SIM technologies. So today we have, UICC SIM implemented and the ENO SIM. That I think something we will be maybe discussing today.

- [Ryan] Absolutely. Sam let me throw a question over to you real quick. Just can you talk through the company a little bit, more for our audience, so they can kind of get a sense of, more about Pod Group if for instance they, aren't as familiar, as others are. I'd love to hear just kind of more about the background, the story and what you all are doing now and kind of the overall focus and impact you have on the IoT space.

- [Sam] Sure, yeah. So in Pod Group has been around in some form or another for nearly well over 20 years now. Originally it was a hardware company in very early M2M so is actually connected lockbox for deliveries and post people. And I think that was kind of before the age of Amazon. So I think maybe almost like a little ahead of its time, it was like you could unlock it with an SMS. And so they, I think turned out not to be too much demand for it. And then about 10, 11 years ago, it kind of moved on from the hardware business and then started to focus on this global connectivity as IoT began to kind of, as I say really kind of start to scale and this need for global connectivity or more than just local connectivity became more apparent. And so, you know, the support essentially at that moment in time became a global MVNO, in the traditional sense kind of, working with different carriers and reselling their services. And then really since then, it's really been trying to kind of , evolve what it was, in the MVNO space. As Felix mentioned, we kind of really implemented a good CMP, very early on, and then that's evolved into something a lot bigger and more impressive now. And really tried to expand globally, to make sure we're kind of, we are able to provide, a very flexible nimble connectivity service. And so, we now have offices in, we have offices in Spain, UK, California, one in central America as well or Mexico and then also one in Hong Kong. And so, it really kind of expanded globally to be able to provide that local service around the world. And then, beyond that, in the last few years, we've kind of looked at what was happening in the connectivity space and the MVNO space and kind of, and the MNO space. And kind of looked at what was needed to really achieve the scalability and in IoT. And so we've evolved this concept into what we call now, the enterprise network operator concept. Which is really kind of something new in the market. And it is still very much a concept but the focus of it is really to deliver ownership of the different elements of IoT to the enterprises so they can manage them directly. So really that's kind of the journey of pardon them as we were recently acquired as well by G and D that concept, we really wanna evolve into other parts of the ecosystem as well, which maybe we'll talk about a bit later as well.

- [Ryan] Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, we were going to kind of, I was planning on talking about the ENO strategy a little bit later, but maybe we can jump into that now, since you've kind of segued there a little bit from a background standpoint. And Felix, maybe you can jump in and talk a little bit more about, what the enterprise network operator strategy actually is, why it was built, the opportunity that was seen in the market to bring this to light. And then we can dive a little bit more into maybe the benefits and the versus kind of what's out there in the market. And Sam feel free to jump in at any point as well.

- [Felix] So from as Sam said, okay so the, basically the strategy which enterprise network operator it's providing, to the hardware manufacturers distributors. So the people that actually, at using the connectivity for IoT projects, providing them with all the capabilities that MVNO, like a both okay, already have, because we have the control of the connectivity. We have the control of the SIM card. And there's a lot of stuff okay. A lot of power, that even we okay, as in MVNO, we already have. So providing all that capabilities. So our, the hardware manufacturers, distributors, the people that are actually doing the IoT projects, they can benefit and being their own operator, I would say, okay, that's a very good point okay, from ENO. So, one of the aspects is the SIM itself that for a lot of people, which believe, okay, that's the SIM it's just that passive element, that you insert into the device for providing you with connectivity. But it is actually a pocket sized device that the operator control. And that small cell, it can provides with a computational power, cryptographic abilities and benefiting from that capability the SIM have, for implementing applications, embedded applications, inside of the SIM card. That can solve and help with IoT challenges. It's one of the propositions of the ENO concept under the ENO SIM that we are developing.

- [Sam] And just to expand on that. So really I think to Felix's point, what the concept really is about as I mentioned before, delivering the ownership and control to, you know, it could be hardware manufacturers, or it could be the enterprises themselves. And that goes through the platform, the connectivity, the network. And as we've kind of seen the evolution of private networking, particularly in US with CBRS and then in Europe as well with a big push towards like campus networks and industrial IoT, there's a need for a lot more visibility and control of the network, for these enterprises. And so, we've got the SIM card and I think there's lots of elements on that, that are needed to really kind of deliver the NR strategy like Felix said, the eSIM element, the cryptographic security element, and then also kind of the idea of zero touch provisioning. But you know, lots of people talk about that, from the perspective of just connectivity, global SIM, zero touch provisioning. But what we're talking about is, the ability to basically program your device like the APN, the ports, the IP's, via the SIM channels securely, without having to pre-configure any of it in the device. So it kind of simplifies the whole supply chain from that perspective as well. And then, as we talked about private networks, I talked about private networks before, particularly kind of in industrial IoT, there's a big need for local campus networks, again in supply chain logistics, it can be big at factories, but there's also this requirement to roam on roam off and access the macro networks as well. So, you know, be more than just an island deployment. And so at the core network level, as an enterprise network operator, we've done a lot of integration to allow this roam on roam off concepts at the private and public network level. And then also obviously then deliver all of that in the platform for management by the actual enterprise or help a manufacturer themselves. So really, that's the kind of example of how an ENO slightly different, is that it's yet delivering the control and ownership to the enterprise as opposed to keeping it behind, a closed door.

- [Ryan] Yeah and what would most enterprises, use that for or what would they benefit out of being able to do that as opposed to kind of the existing strategy and offerings out there in the market now?

- [Sam] Yeah I mean, each of the different elements I think has different benefits. I mean, you know, at the SIM card level and having more control, we know with eSIM with zero touch provisioning and things obviously that's just kind of, simplifying their own supply chain. They don't have to manage multiple skews of Sims. You know, they can truly provision local services on a single global skew or they can use global services and they can then update that remotely, in terms of the SIM applications, the zero touch provisioning. Now, if you imagine you have, as an enterprise, you get five applications. Each of them required to speak to different clouds or have different conflicts on the device. If you have to manage the, if you have to program those in batches of 2000, now that is one of the biggest challenges actually to variety is actually the configuration of these devices, and customizing the configuration. Whereas, you know, if you can just program them all the same way, deliver them to the factory and when it turns on, it just pulls its conflict down, by the same channel, is a massive amount of efficiencies that can be created. And then on the private network side, it's really what we're doing today is private LTE networking, but that's just a precursor to 5G. And I think, you know, 5G will, to some extent, probably revolutionize the way that, IoT devices are managed. And, you know, the ability to flash your network control, like in additional security all in the hands of the enterprise behind their firewalls is hugely advantageous for them. And I think that's something. So the security side is something really that a lot of enterprises have said is kind of almost holding them back from deploying IoT because of the fear of, you know, the consequences of a security breach. With all that information.

- [Ryan] Can you take me through a little bit about, kind of who your target customer and audience is, when you're approach, or I guess, implementing this strategy. And then at the same time, from a use case perspective, what are some use cases that maybe you're comfortable sharing with our audience that your customers and clients are deploying, that you're actively involved in?

- [Sam] Yeah, I think it's pretty broad. I mean, relatively horizontal in terms of the use cases for which we work in. But particularly I think, you know, around the ENO, you know, we are, I mean, we've traditionally, we've been very focused and worked with a lot of SMBs, and help them kind of go from being small companies to scaling into big IoT companies. And, you know, we wanna continue doing that as we move forward. With the ENO strategy, we've been talking a lot more to some larger enterprises, had some good success in the utility space, for example, where we're working to deliver, particularly on the private networking side and this kind of ability to migrate from private to public or public to private even, you know, as private networks are deployed. And then, you know, even just kind of in, as the kind of like traditional businesses, like tracking, for example or logistics kind of evolve, you know, they're becoming slightly more complex in themselves. You know, we're moving into like dash cams and things like that, which require completely different usage profile. And that's where this control of the SIM remotely to update cost control for the customer is really important. And then, you know, we're seeing a lot now in retail as well, where again, just the level of control at the local level is really important. So I don't know, Felix, if you've got anything to add to that in terms of where you see the use cases coming in from the device testing that we've done, et cetera.

- [Felix] Well, I would like to, to add a little bit more okay. On the, an additional case, okay. That we have with the ENO SIM. So leveraging the capabilities, of the cryptographic elements inside of the SIM card, regardless or beside of the Cedar touch provision in functionality. So the same helping devices, to the load configurations from cloud, but in the first time, you switch on. There's another capability that the SIM, the ENO SIM can help with. And that we are using okay, with some customers. Which is if you want to opt for a cheaper hardware and reducing the manufacturing cost of your device, but you're going to use cellular connectivity. The SIM card will be there. And the SIM card, it's a cryptographic chip. So on the ENO SIM, what we have implemented is an embedded application. Inside on the SIM card. So the device can send the temperature sensor and immediately, what about the measurement, the SIM card encrypts the data and orders, the module, the device to upload the measurement encrypted to the cloud. That way, you do not have to implement the HTTP in TLS Crypto connectivity is stuck on your device firmware. Because the SIM card will be there and that can implement that part. Releasing more capabilities of your devices, for doing more smart stuff with sensors or for opting for cheaper hardware. So if you're opting for cellular connectivity, concerns about the device manufacturing expenses, why not, take leveraging okay, that capability. So the crypto chip with simple S.

- [Ryan] Fantastic. Yeah thank you guys for kind of diving into that a little bit more. I was very curious, kind of understand how that all works. How it's being applied and kind of, you know, how it compares to what's going on in the market now from an offering perspective that's great. I do wanna break off from that just briefly. We might come back to it in a second, but talk a little bit more high level about a topic I think we really interesting to get y'all perspective on and that's just, if we look at the IoT market and where it's coming as Sam you've been involved in the space for a very long time. If we can talk about the barriers that you all have seen through your experiences, regarding what has really prevented IoT from reaching, its full potential. You know, there's been a lot of projections, on how many deployments we're gonna have, how kind of adoption is gonna look like and so forth. But there are a lot of different barriers that are kind of restricting that from happening, whether it's, the market being kind of, at times, very fragmented, the technology seeming complex, you name it. I'm sure there's a lot of interesting kind of angles that you all could kind of approach this from. So I'd love it if Sam, you can kind of start us off, by just talking through, what barriers you've seen throughout your experience and currently now, to do IoT really reaching those, projected deployment numbers and adoption that we've kind of been promised for so many years? Sam, obviously.

- [Sam] Sorry. And yeah, I think you touched on a couple of really important ones. Just then, in terms of like the fragmentation and things like cost. And I think, you know, they're starting to be addressed now, but not necessarily completely. And we're kind of seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, in many ways, but, you know, there's still a lot of confusion I think in terms of, the communication that's used, the terminology that's used. I mean, if we just look at the term eSIM alone, you know, like it can be used in five different ways, to mean five different things. It can mean just that the eSIM on the actual, the physical SIM card. It can mean, you know, the technology, it can mean a profile and really there's no, we'll never be in clear communication around, you know, how terminology should be used and that. We get questions from customers and, you know, it takes a while to educate them on that. And for them to really understand the power of, of what eSIM actually is, or UICC actually is. And then, you know, the same kind of confusion applies to network technologies. You know, NB-IoT, CAT-M you know, is it globally deployed? No, no. Can you access it anywhere? No. And yet that's not really kind of it's communicated as the future, but not necessarily, people aren't necessarily told that, you know, this isn't available in every country. You know, like if you want a global application, you're gonna need some level of 2G fallback. And yet, you know, that 90% of the way through that device kind of build and development and all of a sudden they're like, okay, I need to rethink this. And, you know, there's still a lot of, I think, poor and confusing communication by a lot of different providers out there for sure. I think some of the standards have been somehow, underwhelming as well, just in terms of like the implementation at the GSMA level maybe. And, you know, when you look at how even eUICC is standardized initially, you know, it's kind of the reliance on SMS, it's kind of interesting. And, you know, is that a technology that we should be relying on when, you know, the future is data and, you know, is that holding things back because it makes the deployment somewhat clunky and those sorts of things as well. I mean, they're kind of very small things in a big market, but they're important when it comes to scalability and adoption I think. But, you know, in terms of the broader things, I think, yeah, fragmentation is huge. You know, there's new technologies, new platforms every day, and, you know, hardware, software and connectivity really needs to be, you know, talking to each other constantly in that, will the data coming off it and the way that they interact needs to be SIM less. And I think that's one of the big things that we're looking to kind of address, moving forward. And we feel that as a connectivity provider, we can sit perfectly in the middle there and almost orchestrate between these platforms and, you know, the device management piece that the ENO SIM brings is our first step towards, you know, moving into that. So, you know, I think, that, and interoperability, you know, there's so many things we could talk about for probably 25 minutes alone but yeah, it's really interesting.

- [Ryan] Now lemme ask you, when you all work with companies and this is something that we haven't really covered too much about, we've maybe touched on here and there, but when a company adopts IoT, there's a certain kind of skill set and a certain understanding of the technology that often is required by that customer, by the end user and so forth. How have you seen that play into barriers for adoption? I mean, obviously we can, you can go down the path of talking about, you know, just the resistance from a legacy standpoint or legacy infrastructure standpoint, but then, but I'm thinking more along the lines of individual knowledge, skills that are needed within an organization to help these IoT solutions be not just adopted, but also utilized to their fullest extent. And as the company grows, how they can kind of expand on that. And I feel like that's a skill set that's really required within an organization to truly benefit. I'd be curious to kind of get your thoughts on how you see it.

- [Sam] Yeah, I think it's a good point. And I think, you know, one of the things we did some work with one of the analysts a few years ago, and that's really one of the reasons to see a new strategy also came about is the lack of these expertise or in-house knowledge of how to digitize or implement these implement, you know, networks and platforms, et cetera. To really manage and scale IoT within their own company or their own enterprise. And so, you know, I think it is a huge challenge because it is a, you know, an additional budget that lots of people don't necessarily consider. They want, you know, the benefits and cost savings of IoT and the efficiencies, but maybe, you know, they haven't got the initial budget to invest. And I think with the ENO strategy and the platform that we're trying to build, is to try and take a lot of that administrative burden or internal requirement in-house requirement off the enterprise, and kind of deliver them with a much more SIM less kind of connect. Well, I guess, IoT management platform eventually, so that, you know, you don't quite need the same level of expertise, right? You don't need someone to manage five different things. You can have one person managing all of that centrally, you know, via a single pane of glass. And I think it, it's a real challenge for enterprises, I think and is one of, probably another, one of the reasons that yeah, you know, there's been lots of stops and starts, right? Enterprises dipping their toes, realizing maybe they're not equipped and, you know, then pulling back because maybe, they're not 100% percent convinced of the value in return when they have to make that investment. I don't know, Felix, if you've got anything to add there from a more technical perspective.

- [Felix] Well, actually what I think is that, developing, implementing an IoT project, it requires a variety actually of skills first okay. You need the domain knowledge of the problem you are trying to solve. So the IoT vertical either is agriculture or in trucking positioning and utilities industrial okay. That's very necessary because you're implementing an IoT project for solving a business problem or an enterprise problem actually. And along with that at, from my perspective, I think that some companies has more, that I implement in the IoT projects. They are more focused into building the cloud solution. Then they are lacking the connectivity knowledge and the connectivity challenges. They perceive connectivity as a commodity maybe, if they are focused into implementing the cloud solution or the IoT application on the cloud. Then if the company is more focusing into distributing the hardware, for solving different vertical solutions or for different vertical solutions, they are lacking the knowledge on the connectivity as well. And maybe on the IoT application development. So it's like a three or four, even four different skills sets okay. That would be needed a quick from my perspective, the main of knowledge, hardware, connectivity and in the platform and software okay, and the cloud.

- [Ryan] All right.

- [Felix] From Pod I think that we are covering very well okay, the connectivity part and also the additional knowledge that we offer to our customers because we know okay, about the hardware, we care about the hardware of our customers. And we accommodate the connectivity to the all hardware, when onboarding them, helping us to feel okay the part in. And I think that that's key okay, for companies in the IoT to provide not only your part of the knowledge, but being aware okay. If that there say too many different skillsets and the more you have, the more the solution or service you will be